(08-31-2024, 02:46 PM)Mozart Wrote: So, the very first table is correct for work function, bit the other 2 are based on electrochemical potential !

All I need another table with work function with elements of low values as we need to create the gradient.

(09-01-2024, 12:57 PM)Mozart Wrote: Yes, this is correct 100%

So, it seems that Nickel might be a better option in the class of affordable materials available off the shelf … and doesn’t look expensive considering that we only need a very little amount.
So, I will order some nickel wire to confirm what Arie Melis deGeus say in his patent. So, I may get about 2 V per cell if keep using magnesium as lower work function in equation.

Any other suggestion for lower work function element available off the shelf which doesn’t react with water is more than welcome. I know magnesium will react even with deionised water but as long as a very thin layer of oxide is formed on surface the oxidation stop. So, basically I a using magnesium oxide ? for work function which can explain a little higher gain than predicted with pure magnesium.

So, all this work function depends on purity of elements used and also on purity of water .. which I have found satisfactory to use deionised water off the shelf and 99.9… purity of metal large available … it may be further improved using pharmaceutical grade pure water but the cost do not justify … i think.

Another important point that I want to bring to your attention is: the higher is the stack the higher is the resistance and after a certain number of stacks in series we are going to see a great voltage drop … this is where all those experimenting with Stubblefield batteries have failed in obtaining the power they were looking for. Do not get confused by DC resistance in wire transmission ! This is something different, and this is how semiconductor works.

I have no intention to over complicate things here so, i will keep things simple as much as possible for diy methods at home … but I do consider a mass production in nano scale … in case some crap greedy individuals or companies try to patent it.


IMHO, a better result can be obtained if we make separate small stacks and series them, than parallel for greater chargig capabilities.

All connections MUST be as short as physical possible between cells and decent size must be provided for insulated bus bar. I am considering bus bar made of multiple layers of copper sheet in adhesive lined shrink tubes or water shield coating after ends electrodes been inserted between layers very tide eventually using stainless steel screws … it is cheaper to use stainless steel screws than brass screws. Keep in mind magnesium is not that easy to work with !

Most pf people trying to manufacture batteries are looking for great reduction of internal resistance, but the other way around can be exploited. So, there is a different concept where I am trying to obtain the very same effect exploited by power grid suppliers/distribution … if it works for them, it will work for us as well.

Here I am suggesting that power plants provide with the help of transformers high voltage low current in network distribution which is than further transformed in substations with adequate current and lower voltage for domestic/commercial usage. And it will work very well if we use  frequency in rage of MHz where we use a transmission line between emitter and receiver of few meters long according to wavelength calculated … as Tesla indicate in high voltage transmission were quarter wave amplification is employed for safety reason as well on each side of the transmission line (Morray generator is built in this way and many people think (wrong !) the wire is in fact an antenna). This wire is slightly sagging and in this way allow for free vibrations desired so, distance between supportive poles might be essential (not sure about this, must be checked).

In short: imagine this assembly as a miniature power plant with a single point of distribution that will be your home generator which can be placed in your back garden, loft or balcony or even between 2 rooms with windows on the same  external wall.

So, we can use trial and error approach to find out how many cells can be connected in series … if we observe the total voltage is lower than the sum of each cell we need to disconnect from series one by one until the sum of each one correspond to the output reading, provided that each cell will be made as possible identical. Now build exactly the same and connect them in parallel.

Another option is to attach a tantalum capacitor of 10-40 uF in parallel for each cell, but being placed in a wet condition requires protective coating or special condition capacitors which makes it expensive, or cheaper ceramic caps of the same capacity any of them for lowest voltage available usually 10 v or 2-4 v if the cost allow. Although they are not essential.
But, it is important to add a capacitor in parallel with the output for each battery in range of 100 uF with 10-20% higher voltage then the output of battery, eventually super/ultra capacitors or double layer capacitors (built on same model of supercap) matching the voltage and capacity (this is getting expensive). So, for diy method electrolytic caps 100 uF 16 v might suffice provided that you are not building more than 14 v per battery.

Once such a battery is built we can discuss the best method of usage of such free continuous electrical power, non polluting, eco friendly, small size, easy to manufacture at home without expensive or specialised tools. Although a good degree of skills and accuracy is required.

(09-01-2024, 03:27 PM)Mozart Wrote: Well, it is exactly the same principle involved where work function is exploited. The salt bridge/ion bridge act as dipole element between the 2 dissimilar metals … the output is further enhanced by chemical reactions which will lead to metal degradation and the output will decrease at an increased rate. The method I have described above just avoid this electrochemistry and preserve integrity of electrodes.

Unless a far more advanced solution is employed to recover electrodes degradation as per Arie Melis deGeus patent where a magnetic field is employed to bring back all particles that have travelled to the other side … I have tried to get some components and found out that suppliers have discontinued the products about a month after the patent have been submitted.  Not to mention that no electron permeable membrane is available unless you are willing to pay a leg and an arm for it.
Also, this solution use magnetisable elements and addition of different metals for each electrode … far beyond my reach for a diy method and cheap.

So, I have to satisfy with less output per cubic meter but easily achievable at home by regular folks. In the end we are talking about a method to obtain continuous free electric power with very little money and unlimited method to use of it. It is like a solar power system, but far more reliable and efficient, with less degradable components that can work 24/7/365. Able to power a house or a vehicle or a small workshop. It might even be a solution to keep a laptop on forever or any similar device with the cost of few ml of deionised water once a week (if necessary) and be easy attachable to it.

I would leave open the opportunity for anyone interested to patent a manufacture method, but not the principle of operation which MUST be free of charge, available for anyone anywhere in the world. And even more than this if anyone is really interested with manufacture capabilities and cash flow I can suggest affordable methods. Also, I want to keep my distance from any initiative as I don’t have a desire to share the same fate as Arie Melis deGeus or many others. Also, I do not ask nor willing to accept any kind of help or remuneration of any kind. All is free !

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I am just curious if anyone may find usable power if 100-1000 pieces of 10-20uF 12 V capacitors would be available almost instantly for discharge ? Or 10k of them or 100k of them ? What would be the price for such energy available 24/7/365 with a possible cost of 1-10 l of deionised water or any purified water per week or even fortnight ? No storage involved or anything else. Not to mention the option to upgrade or downgrade the whole system any time you wish or use modules upon your wish/needs.

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For my latest design which will be 3d printed next week I only use few ml of water per cell and they can work with as little as a single drop to just touch both metals. I already started part of the assembly and only the carcass is needed and final assembly/connections upon my available time to do it. I have made it modular and further tests just in case can be done easy now.

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Also, I have another setup based on same principle using a different geometry that can work on months of evaporations and is able to provide power as long as there is any tiny vapours of water, but is much more labour intensive and it is likely more suitable for a mechanised/automated method of manufacture … it is my first model which I have not shared anywhere yet but I intend to present it including other methods of manufacture for an automatised manufacture with very cheap and wide available materials.

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Also, if Joel would be so kind and available to design a similar system based PEG, it might be much more powerful, of course without distracting him from many other experiments.